Rachel Gerson:
Our guest today is a radiologist in training. We are not using her name to protect her privacy. I’m Rachel Gerson. This is the Tunnel of Truth Podcast. We jokingly refer to the CT scanners as the tunnel of truth in radiology, because they tell you all the answers. When I spoke to you before, something that really struck me, was the concept of the power of words in shaping your career and your sense of place within the radiology community.

Radiology Dr:
Yeah, thanks for having me. I was really excited when I heard about what you’re starting here actually, and starting a podcast like this specifically for a radiologist. Happy to be here. I am a resident in a diagnostic radiology residency, and this is my final year. I’m a PGY6. And so, I just want to talk about some of the experiences that I’ve had while in residency, because some of them were very eye opening and ones that I struggled with over the past few years and would like to share.

Radiology Dr:
One in particular that started was, whenever I was accepted into residency at this institution and I was extremely excited. It was one that I really wanted to… It was my number one choice. I was very pumped about it. And then once I got to the residency program, there were several of us, but it was interesting because in my residency class while I looked around, and there was actually only one white Caucasian male, it was a pretty large class in the field of radiology. It’s actually, usually more male dominated. So it was interesting to have such a variety of people, which was really exciting and fun, but then it was interesting because we all looked at each other. We’re like, “This is odd, but okay.” And my class was awesome. It was really wonderful. But the second month of my residency, I was asked to be a part of this diversity panels.

Radiology Dr:
My family’s Latino, both of my parents are Cuban, which I’m very proud of. And so, I consider myself a Latina or Latinx. I was asked to join this panel by my program director. And my program director was actually speaking to other program directors of the School of Medicine to discuss increasing diversity within their residency programs. And so, I went to the panel and I sat there and I was listening to my program director who was a wonderful individual and was one of those who I think was really trying to work to do that, to do what she was talking about as far as increasing diversity. But the way that she said certain things really, was quite off putting and gave me kind of a complex after I heard this. So at this panel, there was a display of things like, “Oh this is my original residency class, is all white Caucasian males.”

Radiology Dr:
And then, we worked really hard to recruit and she was really proud, because this was our latest class. And just to give you guys a breakdown, here are the numbers of people who applied this year. And it was nice. It was all these pie charts. And it showed that about, out of the ones that applied for my residency year, about 25% were female and only 12.5% overall were of diverse backgrounds. And then I was like, “Whoa, wait a second. If all of my classes, except for one is actually of diverse backgrounds.” I was like, “What a small little narrow thing to be looking at.” And it just made me start thinking, “Was I just selected because my parents were born in Cuba?” I’m very proud of that, but that’s not the reason I’d want to be accepted to a program, because I worked my butt off.

Radiology Dr:
I thought this was the best program I could get into, it was my number one choice. I took time off and did research in medical school, got papers published. I worked my butt off. So I was like, “Wait a second.” It just makes you start thinking. I myself have an imposter syndrome I think anyway, regarding feeling like people are going to realize that I’m not supposed to be here. I’m not cut out for it. But I heard that, it made me start thinking and then a program director was continuing with her presentation about how a residency actually worked to recruit diverse applicants. And one of the things she said that they went to predominantly black medical schools, in order to recruit directly from there. But as she continued to speak, she said, “And you can recruit at these medical schools, and remember, your applicants don’t all have to be AOA.”

Radiology Dr:
And just for those who might not know what AOA means, AOA is a special award. It’s usually about top 10th percentile of your medical school class. So not just radiology, it’s your whole medical school class. It’s tough to get obviously, and it’s very prestigious to receive that award, but I wasn’t AOA. And that really hit me because then, we’re at this talk, talking about how to recruit people of diverse backgrounds. And then, you’re saying that people do not have to be at this level. I’m not an AOA student. It made you think, “Well, if usually they look for that”, she’s saying that because that’s usually a qualification that is a cutoff qualification, it stung. It stung pretty bad. And that was my, like I said, my second month of residency. I’ll be 100% honest.

Radiology Dr:
It really gave me a pretty bad complex through the remainder of residency. I don’t know. Did I actually make it on my own? Residency has been difficult for me. It was not a walk in the park. There was a lot of studying to do. And of course, anytime in residency you could have a lot of success stories, but then you definitely have some failure stories, which is good. That’s what residencies for, it’s training. But whenever I did have times that I was struggling, it made me think all the time, am I even supposed to be here? Am I actually to the level at which I should be at this program? If you are accepting people just because of their background, I’m not going to be in a place where I could be successful, really. It’s going to be a really big struggle if everyone else around me is AOA and of top 10 percentile.

Radiology Dr:
And I’m definitely not there. I thought about that all the time. It was not until, pretty much four years later, I was chosen to be one of the chief residents for my residency class, which was a really great honor. And then, I was on the other side as far as, I was involved with applicant interviews and things of that nature. So I finally was able to find out what the cutoff scores were for step scores and things that people are looking for. And I was like, “Oh man, I totally made it. I totally cleared those requirements.” And it was such a relief, but that was so horrifying, because I was looking back and I was like, “Oh my God, it’s literally been four years of you feeling like, I may not have made it. Maybe I just made it here because my family background.”

Radiology Dr:
And looking back, the intention of my program director and the other program directors in that room that we’re trying to work to increase the diversity of the residency, they were trying to do something wonderful and they really did. My class was awesome. We all took our boards this year. We all passed and we’re really hard workers. I’m slightly biased obviously, but I think my class is freaking awesome. The intent was there to actually help improve the residency and make changes. But I think sometimes people say things and don’t even know what the effects could be later on. And it’s situational, obviously, it’s very particular, but that whole session was literally about how to improve recruitment. So that was something that affected me for a while.

Rachel Gerson:
When you look at the experience of being on the other side and efforts to recruit a diverse class going forward, what was that like for you? How did you hold those ideas together as you were looking for both trying to recruit the best class that you can, and a diverse class?

Radiology Dr:
It’s interesting because, the women in radiology group, within our radiology residency program, has had some book clubs and things like that my program director is a part of. And one of the books we read, talked about some of these issues that would come up. And it just happened to be the one that was selected. I think just because of a lot of the movements that are going on right now. And it was something I directly brought up. It takes a while. It’s my last year of residency. I finally have built up a pretty decent reputation and things where people aren’t going to be like, “Oh, that girl’s just trying to stir the pot.” I don’t want to be that person, but I was like, “Actually, this happened and I’m sure that’s not what was meant.”

Radiology Dr:
But the response was, “Oh, should we tell all our underrepresented minorities that are applying that you’re here, not because you’re a minority, but because your accomplishments.” And I was like, “Nah, man, because then all of a sudden people are automatically going to be like, I’m here because I’m a minority.” I was like, “I don’t feel like…” I was like, “That’s tough.” I didn’t have a really good solution. But for me I thought that would be, to me, the automatic human to a response. Being on the other side, I feel like I saw that everyone across the board, even the ones that were of diverse backgrounds, they had very different experiences, but all of them met the academic requirement. There was a small amount that did not meet our cutoff really, for step scores. And again, scores don’t necessarily make the person, but it’s what we have right now, to use as a qualifier, because you get so many applications. Is it fair?

Radiology Dr:
No, and I think that’s why they do give a few more people, chances that might not reach that level. But to be fair, not all of them were of diverse backgrounds, that had lower scores. I hate to say it’s heartwarming, because there was also Caucasian males in that group, but it was, because you’re like, “Oh, okay. They’re not just trying to focus on, oh, diverse people that have lower scores. Let’s give them a chance.” Because it’s a complex thing. You’re to the point where you’ve gone through medical school and you’re applying. You worked for that sucker. You want to be selected because of that.

Rachel Gerson:
Did you see the diversity that was in your class, reflected in the faculty and the community that you were joining?

Radiology Dr:
No. So the faculty is not extremely diverse, but again, I think sometimes it can be tough, because the faculty here are pretty homogeneous as far as a lot of them are white, Caucasian, or some of them are Korean. We have a few from Indian, Pakistani background, but there was very few Latinos. I think there was two, out of, there’s over a hundred faculty. The Latino residents and the faculty actually, we got together once, during my R2 year, we all made food and brought it and had a little shin dig. But then I almost felt bad, because we didn’t invite anybody else. I was like, “Oh just because we’re all Latino”, which you’re causing an isolating problem. And I don’t have any easy answers for this, but it almost feels like you are being like, “Oh I’m participating in this because of my background, but I’m not inviting anybody else, because they don’t have a similar background.”

Radiology Dr:
And that’s discriminatory too. And I think that’s something that you can see also, like, no, the faculty isn’t too diverse, but the community around here isn’t extremely diverse either. But I know it’s something that they’re really trying to work on, but recruitment’s difficult, mostly for faculty. I think for residents it’s different, especially because my class was so diverse, there was a few people of various backgrounds. There was a few African Americans and a few Latinos in the residency classes above me, but subsequently we’ve had a decent number. And I think it probably does have to do with the fact that my class had increased diversity. So that’s been fun to see, but it hasn’t really been seen in the faculty as much. Who wants to move their whole family to a community that might not have people of similar backgrounds, unless the job is awesome. And the job probably is awesome, but it might not be worth it for the whole family to do that.

Rachel Gerson:
You mentioned that feeling of imposter syndrome that lasted four years, based on an early comment. Were there particular things that made you feel supported in your program?

Radiology Dr:
Absolutely. That’s a good question. So my residency class, again, there were lots of diverse background, but also there were over 50% of us were actually female. It was shocking to us. We’re like, “Oh, are we just here because of our gender? Where we just here because of our cultural background?” However, man, it’s been a great support group. We’ve been able to have open conversations about our background. Several of us actually are having to have similar imposter syndrome for various reasons, but it’s true. And even with the females in our class, one in the beginning had a child coming in and then others have had children during residency. I think it’s been really fun just to see everybody coming together and trying to work on covering call and things like that. Might happen normally, but I found it really comforting as far as, just a group you can go to and feel safe with. One of the faculty that I’ve worked very closely with, because I’m going into musculoskeletal radiology and she’s a musculoskeletal radiologist.

Radiology Dr:
And then, as I was progressing in my residency and she saw that I was also going to be going into MSK. She was like, “You’re a female, you got to represent, we got to do this.” And I didn’t even expect that. She was helping me put my CV together. And we talked about research and places I should apply for Fellowship, which was really neat because I don’t know. I didn’t think about having that kind of a conversation with her. It’s not something that’s on a checklist or maybe, I need to talk about my CV and where I’m going to apply and also talk about being a female in radiology during this application process. I didn’t think about that, but she just brought it up and we’ve talked about it a few times even. And just being able to make your presence known and be able to contribute to the field of radiology and bring others into it. So you find it sometimes in unexpected places.

Rachel Gerson:
That’s great. You may or may not have had experiences around this, but I’m curious. Having a diverse group of radiologists impacts the patient side of diversity and equity. Have you had any patient interactions or notice any areas in the radiology department where background, gender, economics, things like that play into your patient care or access to patient services, things like that?

Radiology Dr:
Yes. Because again, it was really a moment for me. So that session, the second month of my residency, they were talking about how, in this area, it’s just… Some people on the panel were like, “Oh it’s extremely whitewashed and there’s no diversity.” But I was like, “Well, that’s interesting because I am a radiology resident. I have very, very limited patient interaction compared to people in internal medicine and family medicine.” I had already interpreted for three people already because I had been on a fluoroscopy rotation where we’re doing swallow studies and things like that. And as I was able to speak Spanish with, them without a problem. I grew up in Tennessee and there was a lot more interaction with people of Latinx and I was able to interpret, use Spanish a lot more that interaction with patients, but still, it was second month and I’d already done that a few times and I had been thinking about it at that time too.

Radiology Dr:
Because, I used the public transit system. And I was like, “Man, I’ve heard Spanish on the train, and things like that in the middle of the city.” And so, I was actually a little surprised when people were… Not surprised. I understand it’s not the same as, let’s say you go to Southern California, and it would be. It’s a different population. If I’m on a procedural rotation and I see somebody with a Spanish name, I’m like, “Oh man, I wonder if I get to interpret.” Because again, I don’t get to do it as often as I used to, but it’s still an opportunity. And I’ve done that every year through radiology, as far as doing some kind of interpretation, which has been really great. Something else that’s been interesting is, knowledge of different people’s experiences can really contribute. And one thing I thought about and it wasn’t necessarily somebody who was a underrepresented minority or things like that, but it was a patient child who had really big thyroid nodules, that was noted incidentally on a CT scan because she was trauma patient.

Radiology Dr:
They did a full scan of the body, and that was noted. And I think she was nine, had these big thyroid nodules. So then it was follow-up imaging with ultrasound. And it was funny, because she had an interesting last name. It was just a little bit different. And my attending, who was actually European, he looked at it and he was like, “Hmm, let’s go chat with this patient.” Oftentimes you don’t go to chat with patients that are getting any kind of routine ultrasounds, but we did go chat with the patient and her family. And he was like, “I was wondering, are you guys Ukrainian?” And they were like, “Yeah, we are Ukrainian.” And the parents had just immigrated a few years ago. And he was like, “Oh.” Because apparently, whenever the Chernobyl disaster happened and there was all the radiation, everywhere and there was a lot of radiation exposure, a lot of these children that were subsequently born from people that were exposed at that time, have things like thyroid nodules that develop in really bad goiter.

Radiology Dr:
Talk about being culturally competent and thinking about what this could be. I just thought that was amazing. And again, so sometimes that does make you think about certain things or people that might have, some of the patients that come across that you are looking at their imaging studies and you’re trying to do some differential diagnosis. If they do have a name that looks like that might not be a typical name you might come across in the United States. It would prompt me to look in their chart a little bit more to see, “Oh, are they a recent immigrant or something like that?” And oftentimes you’ll see that they’ve had, it’s like, “Oh yeah, we’ve had this exposure.” Or you came from this country that has a high risk of X, Y, or Z. And so, that really helps you narrow down your list of differential diagnoses.

Radiology Dr:
They actually looked at patients that were supposed to have follow-up imaging. A lot of the times they’re having problems with people not showing up for their appointments. And so, they actually did a study, looking at those patients that were following up and those who were missing their appointments, and actually used their zip codes to determine what parts of the state that they were at. And then associated were comparing what the majority of the socioeconomic status was in that region. They found some really strong evidence that, those that were of a lower socioeconomic area did have a tendency to be missing a bunch of these appointments for follow-up imaging studies. So they still are working on that as far as trying to follow up more with patients in those zip code areas.

Rachel Gerson:
Super interesting. Those kinds of studies are so valuable for us to think that, in the future, what actions can we take to really impact these? I think sometimes in radiology, we think we’re not at the front lines. But actually, lots of these things like follow-up screening, things like that, we can have a big impact on. Do you have advice for people coming up?

Radiology Dr:
Believe in yourself, remember the good things that you do too. Because I think a lot of times we harp on failures, but somebody once said that they had a hell yeah file, which I thought was really awesome. Cases that she looked at, that she made really great calls, that she was proud of. She kept those. And so that, days when she felt really crummy, that she may have missed something or just feeling down about her skills, that she would check out her, hell ya file. Be like, “That’s right. I could do this.” That would be my advice to remember that, you’re amazing. And it’s a residency program and it’s training and doesn’t matter what background you’re from. If you went to the most prestigious medical schools or if you went to state schools like me. Work hard, be a team player, and it’s a training program. You are in training and you’re not going to be a rockstar for a while.

Rachel Gerson:
I love that. I think I’m going to start a hell yeah file. We could all use that in our life, right?

Radiology Dr:
I think you’re right.

Rachel Gerson:
Do you have other thoughts you’d like to share?

Radiology Dr:
Yeah. I actually have one about residency. It was more about being a female. There was an experience that I had, again, starting off my first year. There was one Fellow who became an attending. And so, we had chatted a couple times, mostly because whenever I first started residency, I found out that my father had a recurrence of a sarcoma and he had a lot of imaging studies. And again, I was just starting radiology and I didn’t really know how to read them super well. I spoke to this Fellow who was actually doing some nuclear medicine rotations. And I was like, “Oh, do you mind taking a look at this study for me? Just because I don’t have much experience.” They were like, “Oh yeah, I can do that. No problem.” But after that, he just, I think wanted just to be buddy buddy. A few months in to the academic year, a couple of the Fellows and a couple of the residents, we all went out for food and drinks because we’d all finished a rotation together.

Radiology Dr:
And it was like, “Oh yeah, we finished. Yay.” And it was one of those celebratory things. And he was one of the Fellows that was participating in this. And that night, he was just all about talking. And I was like, “Oh man, here we go.” Because you can tell when somebody’s really just trying to flirt with you and things like that. And I was dating a guy at this time who wasn’t there, but then he started messaging me after out outing. He started messaging me just directly saying, “Oh, how are you? This, that and the other.” And I immediately just, I was like, “Man, this is weird. This guy’s about to be an attending. And he is texting me and I know why he’s texting me. He seemed to be amorously interested.”

Radiology Dr:
And so, just immediately, I was like, “Hey, I just want to let you know, I am dating somebody and I’m extremely happy with them. And if you’re trying to pursue this as a relationship or something, I’m sorry, I’m not interested.” And he was like, “Oh no. I’m just interested in getting to know you and things like that. Why don’t we go get a coffee sometime?” And just kept pushing it. I was like, “Oh man, this is going to be so awkward.” But I was like, “All right.” And so, he wanted to meet up for coffee. And then we had to walk in the rain with an umbrella, sharing an umbrella. And I was like, “Can we just drive there?” It wasn’t far, but I really didn’t want to walk. And he was like, “No, no, let’s go.” And so, we go to this coffee shop and he was like, “What’s wrong?”

Radiology Dr:
And I was like, “Well, this is awkward.” And he says, “Why?” I was like, “Because you’re an attending and I’m a resident and this is not discussing research.” And I’m usually not that straightforward. I’m one of those, I don’t like to make people upset. So he chatted with me, and then just continued to text me and send me pictures of food that he was making and things of that nature and kept asking to hang out. And I was like, “Oh yeah, we could hang out with so and so”, one of the other body Fellows that had come with us to that first outing. And then I just started ignoring his messages. I didn’t really know what to do, because he was an attending and it was awkward. And then he starts telling me how he’s been driving all of these fancy cars, because he has this new attending salary, and he was going around one curve.

Radiology Dr:
It was just orgasmic. And I was like… Texted me that. And then made some comment about whatever I think weather. And I was like, “Well, apparently you like the rain since you like walking in the rain.” “Well, walking underneath an umbrella together was just, it was more romantic that way.” I was like, “You can’t say these things I blatantly told you, man.” To me in my head, I was like, “Okay, this guy’s just being a real idiot right now, but not okay.” It was my first year and I was one of those, I didn’t know what to really do. Nobody knew who I was. And I know this guy was just being an idiot and I didn’t really want to get him in trouble, but it was extremely awkward and it was one of those, I would see him and then I would just feel terrible about… I would just feel bad, just feel very self conscious and one of those stomach drop kind of things.

Radiology Dr:
Time progressed. Then a few months later, he made comments around other Fellows and residents about how terrible my radiology reads were, how I just kept drowning on and on and made no sense on my radiology reads. Then started talking about the research that I do, and why was I even doing research with so and so, because the research project that I’m doing is so bad. Literally had nothing to do with my radiology read, but I found this out from other Fellows and other residents at that time. Again, I didn’t say anything. I would just try and keep my nose down, because again, he’s above me. And so then, later on, we were at a mutual event and this guy was there and saw me. And again, he was around several people, several of my colleagues, because there was residents there and some attendings and stuff there and we were all surrounded. And he saw me, he goes, “What are you doing now? You just go drinking and dancing and partying all the time. Is that all you do now? What are you even doing now?”

Radiology Dr:
I was like, “Excuse me. A, no, but B”, I was like, “What are you saying to me? These are all people around me, not all of them I’m know me super well. How can you just say that?” And people had talked about these, me too, moments that they have had, because I had never mentioned this to anybody. Again, I wasn’t early in my career. I didn’t want to mess with anybody. Plus he didn’t actually physically do anything to me. It was a mental, annoying game and thought about it a lot. But then I also found out that apparently, he had done something similar to some females in the class above me, one of which was married and who was receiving several messages and things like that, to the point where her husband’s like, “Who was texting you?”

Radiology Dr:
She was like, “Dude.” Another one of the girls had turned him down and apparently received similar treatment. And I kept checking up with their female residents below me, just to make sure. Again, most of them, I didn’t say anything to them about what this person had done. Because again, you don’t want to defame somebody, but I just want to make sure they were okay, that they weren’t having the same thing happening. And they weren’t. But the end of that same month, he had started seeing somebody else who he, within a few months was engaged to and now he was married to, and that may have deterred him from talking to the reins below. I think he just really wanted companionship, honestly. Finally, I actually mentioned it to my program director. Like I said, after that Women in Radiology event and I found out all of these different things that had happened and I was like, “You know what, maybe I’ll just go ahead and mention it to her.”

Radiology Dr:
And I did. We have like semi-annual reviews and things like that. So it was that summer. And she was like, “Why didn’t you tell me?” And again, this was over a year after all this stuff initially happened and most of it had blown over now. I just ignored him or took vacation to ignore it so I wouldn’t have to work with him. And so, she had me bring it up to the chairman at the department, which was so awkward, man. I didn’t know this guy and I had to tell him all this stuff. I’m like, “Oh yeah. He sent me this text message.” It was so awkward. But I did it. The chairman’s response was, “Well, he’s got a really good reputation as far as, he’s a really good mentor.

Radiology Dr:
He just received the Research Mentorship Award and he’s married now.” And I was like, “Yep.” And he goes, “Well, what do you want me to do?” And I was like, “I don’t know. It’d be nice if it could be something that’s anonymous, if you’re going to say anything to him, because I really don’t want it to come back to me, even though I’m sure it’s going to.” And he was like, “Well, I’ll speak to him about needing to be more appropriate with residents.” So then a few months later, the chairman sees me in the hallway as I was walking. He was like, “Oh, by the way, I spoke to this guy. I told him, he can’t just text residents and things like that. He just needs to be more appropriate.” And I was like, “All right, cool, thanks XO, XO.”

Radiology Dr:
I didn’t say XO, XO. But almost a year went by after that. And then, I received a text message from one of the chairs of academic affairs for radiology. And he was like, “Hey, can I chat with you for a minute?” And I was like, “Sure.” Apparently, it came up that this attending, we can call him Bob. Bob was going up for promotion, which is interesting, because usually at the academic centers, it takes probably about five years or so to go up for promotion. It had been about two years. He was very big in research. And I think the chairman really liked him. I guess it was brought up. And then it was just like, “Whoa, whoa. What?” The doctor who called me, one of my other attendings, who’s the head of academic affairs.

Radiology Dr:
He actually told me that it had come up. He wanted me to tell him exactly what had happened, and also that they’re trying to keep it very private, but to know what happened. And he specifically wanted to know what the interaction with the chairman was, because he was like, “This is not how we handle things at this institution.” And man, they came to bat, and it just made me think. And I was like, “Man, I don’t want to mess with this guy’s career. He’s going for promotion and things like that.” To me, it’s just one of those things, I feel like sometimes you need to slap on the wrist just to realize, you can’t act like that and not be okay.

Radiology Dr:
He’s not a horrible human. He may be an idiot, but not a horrible human, to ruin careers or things like that. But I think, having some kind of smack on the wrist to be like, “You cannot do things like that. You cannot act like that. You need to be respectful”, should be important. And I think I had struggled with that mentally, as they were asking me, “Hey, will you speak to the Dean of the early Assistant Dean or Vice Chair or something, of the medical school, because they want to talk to you. Will you speak to this investigative person? Lordy, and it was not pleasant. It’s not pleasant talking, and I was having to give details and times and had to look up things, but I was like, you know what? Just the feeling I had of having to check up on the girls in the year below me, that sucks that I had to do that.

Radiology Dr:
And somebody else mentioned, “Well, he’s already married now. That happened before he was married, nothing really came of it. Which I was okay with. It was one of those things, but he still had to get spoken to and certain people I think that needed to know, knew. And I think it’s a wake up call. But then later on, I found things out like, “Oh yeah, Bob was really affected. I had to call Bob and his wife and give them marriage counseling.” I was like, “Dude, chairman, you’re not supposed to be doing that. You’re supposed to be a neutral party.” And it was just interesting, because that was their response, Bob’s really going through it right now.

Rachel Gerson:
It seems small, but picking your vacation days to avoid someone, the pressure of being a trainee and having to talk to the chairman of the department and talk to people in medical affairs, having to worry about the people coming up below you.

Radiology Dr:
Yeah. And it was tough because again, I was like, “Man, this is a lot of hoopla.” And it was. I felt real crappy. Whenever I got that first phone call about what happened at the promotions committee thing. I just started tearing up. I don’t want to ruin somebody’s career for being a dumb boy. In my head, I was like, I’m doing this so that nobody has to feel that stomach drop when seeing this person later.

Rachel Gerson:
Just to wrap up, I wanted to just come back to, you’ve mentioned several times the Women in Radiology Group. I know what that says to me about the importance of having other women in radiology, having people who have backgrounds similar to one’s own, those kinds of things and the importance of it.

Radiology Dr:
But it’s actually been really special, just thinking about it. The fact of, we’ve talked about having families in radiology and expectations of motherhood versus keeping the home, versus also keeping your job and being on top of your game. And imposter syndrome seems to be something that a lot of women suffer from in radiology. We’ve talked about that and it’s nice to know you’re not alone in things that people have done to battle that. But yeah, even the book clubs, again, talking, but things that I’ve learned from those things and the conversations we’ve had afterwards, that have been something that has really stuck with me. So I think it’s been really important. And again, I don’t think I even realized that until this conversation that we’ve had about what an impact it’s actually had during my radiology career.

Rachel Gerson:
Well thank you. Lots of great, well, not great necessarily, but lots of interesting stories. So I appreciate your willingness to share them.

Radiology Dr:
Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Rachel Gerson:
Tunnel of Truth is partially funded by the Washington State Radiological Society’s Committee on Women and Diversity. We are grateful for their support. If you’d like to share your story on this podcast, visit our website, tunneloftruth.com. These stories can be difficult to tell. We create a comfortable recording environment and can keep your identity private, should you wish to maintain anonymity.